Ask HN: Is big tech still more stable?
I joined a big tech recently thinking it would be more stable. But since I joined, it has been layoffs every few months. I almost rather the startup fun with the same amount of job risk.
I joined a big tech recently thinking it would be more stable. But since I joined, it has been layoffs every few months. I almost rather the startup fun with the same amount of job risk.
I think job stability/security for the individual is highly dependent on the company rather than the size. Microsoft, Amazon, and Google have had a history of laying off employees during downturns, while Apple has generally been better about avoiding this (this most recent economic downturn has been the first time Apple has done large layoffs in quite a long time IIRC).
Layoffs are always possible no matter the company, so it's good to be prepared financially for that, however, you can look at a company's history to determine how you should react when the economy starts going down.
For example, I grew up during the 2008 financial crisis. I frequently heard my friends' parents getting laid off from the big tech companies. Years later as I've reflected on this, I came to the realization that if I ever get into a big tech company like Amazon, Microsoft, or Google, that I either need to make it to a position where I'm confident I won't be axed, or get out before I do. And even if I'm confident that I won't get the boot, I should still plan for the possibility of that happening.
Working in big tech has taught me that layoffs are poorly directed at best and performance or value to the company rarely matter.
Smaller companies, sometimes they do, because the have to be more careful but by the time they turn to layoffs it's usually too late for them
Generally, the more you get paid, the less stable it is. Big tech is probably still the most stable way to make that kind of income. What else can you do? Start a business? Rob a bank? Trade stocks? Freelance? Startups are always higher risk, higher returns.
But big tech has become extremely competitive, and high competition makes it more unstable.
If you join a good startup that has an actual product and real exit plan, sure.
And by actual exit plan I mean an IPO, or a multi billion dollar acquisition if that doesn’t work out.
I worked at a unicorn once and it worked out well. Most of the employees who joined pre to just around unicorn status walked away with 8-25x or more return.
Equity is rarely ever worth it without at least a billion dollar exit. I'm not going to wait 4 years and take a $60k per year salary cut for a possibility of making $10k later on.
It is the hirer's job to sell this too. Engineers will always do the math and they'll do it conservatively.
You go to big tech for double the salary (compared to startups), not stability.
Double the base salary true but lower overall payoff since Big Tech equity upside is already priced in.
The optionality is quite nice though if you can still get a long vesting grant.
Think about it - if you join Meta today, get a four year grant at say, 125k a year for four years... if it pops 20% by next year, that's "free money". If it doesn't, well, you can probably still go on the open market and get a competing offer.
I've made about 125k per year OVER my target comp working at FAANG in some good years.
And I lost money because AMZN did horribly between my offer letter and each vesting period between 2020-2023.
No I was no more going to keep 25% of my compensation in AMZN after it vested than I would now take the same amount of cash compensation I get now - ie my cash compensation now is the same as cash + RSU I was getting at Amazon.
I talk to my former coworkers at Amazon, they now have a choice between fewer RSUs and more cash. They always choose more cash.
Ok, let's say you were making the standard amazon 160k salary and you got another 100k a year in stock or something.
If by year two, you saw that for the next three years you were getting 75k in stock, you could have (in theory) gone to GCP and snagged an offer for ~160k+100k (your original 'market value').
I mean, obviously it's not quite that simple and we've both been through FAANG interviews and they move slow and all that, but I'm just saying, in theory if your stock value had dropped low enough, you could have started interviewing elsewhere, and if the reverse happens, it's all upside.
Just for context for those who don’t know. Amazon has a back heavy RSU vesting schedule 5/15/40/40 over 4 years did their initial offer with the last two years 20% every 6 months. The first two years are a pro rated signing bonus to make up for the lack of RSUs. Meaning your compensation will equal $250k if the stock stays flat.
But still - I much rather have the same amount guaranteed in cash especially since I think the outsized stock gain days for FAANG are over.
But you’re right, it’s a lot harder to go from one BigTech company than the other for most software developers (I think???).
Now to be completely transparent with a fact that wasn’t relevant at first but it is with that last statement I made, I have no idea how hard it is to get a software engineering position at Google after coming from Amazon. I do know it’s fairly strait forward to go from AWS ProServe to GCP’s equivalent from what I’ve seen. It’s almost an open door if you’re any good. I just don’t do BigTech or any in office job any more.
And less risk. I knew my equity in a public company was immediately liquid when it vested and I sold it all and diversified as soon as it did.
Now that I make the same amount in cash as I did in cash + RSUs at BigTech, it’s not like I’m going to take 25% of my compensation and put it one stock.
There is no such thing as job security - coming from someone who has been working for 30 years across 10 companies. That shouldn’t even be your goal.
Your goal should be “resilience” - being able to get a job quickly and having enough liquid assets to carry you through the gap.
Also keep your fixed expenses low.
That means an in demand non commodity skillset (no full stack developer isn’t it), a strong network, an always updated resume and longer form “career document” where you detail all your accomplishments in STAR format.
I would much rather get a job in BigTech (been there done that - don’t want to go back) and make $250k+ as a mid level developer even if I did get laid off than work in enterprise dev making $150k as a “senior” working at a bank.
Yes I realize that most of the 2.8 million developers in the US work in enterprise dev. So did I from 1996-2020.
And I know what the current job market looks like. I had to find a job - and did quickly - last year and the year before.
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